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Talk:Mage
Edits to this page Removed resolved issues The Unexpected Shroom (talk) 13:56, September 27, 2015 (UTC) Burst of Flames Is this spell supposed to complete a task or not? The text should probably reflect this if it's not and the code should reflect it if it is... -AnthonyHJ (talk) 00:29, February 18, 2014 (UTC) A formula for Burst of Flames would be nice. Caspid (talk) 15:48, June 4, 2014 (UTC) : Formulae were added to all the skills description where it was possible to do so in an easy-to-understand way. For Burst of Flames, the formulae (there are more than one) are complex and it was considered that a more vague description would actually be more useful. If you click on the "more info about XP gain" link, you'll see that it's recommended to pick your most blue task and always cast Burst of Flames on only that task - that is the only way to ensure that you get the best results from the skill. Knowing the precise formulae won't help you choose how to use the skill. Knowing the formulae WOULD allow you to predict the rewards you would receive, but only if you worked through the relatively complex arithmetic. Since the skill costs only 10MP, it's likely to be a better use of your time to just cast it once on your bluest task and you'll see immediately what rewards you get - and then use the time saved to work on your to-do list to get back some of the MP. :) You can also estimate the rewards you would receive from the information already provided. : Here are the formulae taken directly from HabitRPG's code: cast: (user, target) -> bonus = user._statsComputed.int * user.fns.crit('per') target.value += diminishingReturns(bonus*.02, 4) bonus *= Math.ceil ((if target.value < 0 then 1 else target.value+1) *.075) user.stats.exp += diminishingReturns(bonus,75) user.party.quest.progress.up += diminishingReturns(bonus*.1,50,30) if user.party.quest.key : As you can probably see, converting that to something that makes sense in a web page would not be a simple task, and the very limited benefit it would give would not be worth the time spent on it. : LadyAlys (talk) 18:51, June 4, 2014 (UTC) :: I actually expected the "more info about XP gain" link to show details, i.e. a formula. Alternatively, "(complexly)" could be made into a link with the translated formula. Are individual pages for each spell something to be avoided? If not, it could have its own page. :: The real reason I ask is because I want to do a direct comparison (in EXP gained per MP for a given set of stats and task value) with Backstab, e.g. for the purpose of choosing a class. Also for the sake of completeness, and because I like knowing these things :) :: The terms "most tasks" and "very dark blue" in the examples are very vague, especially since task value is uncapped and varies wildly from user to user and from task to task; unless the diminishing returns function is pretty extreme? :: I understand it's a lot of work; I'd do it myself if I understood the code. Would it be at least possible to have an approximate formula? As of now, the examples make it seem like the spell scales almost entirely with INT and task value matters extremely little, adding a max of ≈10 XP so that the max anyone (regardless of task value, even in the hundreds/thousands) can expect to gain is ≤70XP. Is that correct? :: Thanks for explaining and posting the code. :: Caspid (talk) 23:52, June 4, 2014 (UTC) ::: "I actually expected the 'more info about XP gain' link to show details" ::: As I mentioned, more details are likely to be less helpful because it's needless complexity for most purposes. Your particular purpose ("direct comparison...") is a different case, but a rare one. ::: "Are individual pages for each spell something to be avoided?" ::: The material already on the page should stay there in more-or-less the same way that it is now for consistency with all the other skills, but if you want to create a separate page with more information about the exact formula, I don't see anything wrong with that. ::: "The terms 'most tasks' and 'very dark blue' in the examples are very vague" ::: They don't need to be precise because for all common purposes, the only sensible way to use the skill is to pick your bluest task and cast the skill on that alone. You'll very quickly see exactly how much it gives you. All the wiki page needs to do is give you a rough idea of rewards so you can decide if it's likely to be worth experimenting once with 10 MP. ::: "Would it be at least possible to have an approximate formula?" ::: Approximate formulae (remember there are more than one!) would be about as much work as accurate ones and I can't afford to spend too much time on them for one very specific use which is likely to be outdated in time by nerfing. If approximations are good enough, then the material on the wiki page will give you them - you can interpolate or extrapolate as required (that's why there's two values rather than one). ::: If you want accurate formulae, then that's what the code I posted gives you. To help you understand it: ::: - user._statsComputed.int is your current total INT (including gear, buffs, etc) ::: - user.fns.crit('per') is 1 most of the time, or slightly greater than 1 if a critical hit occurs (for simplicity, consider it to be 1 all the time) ::: - diminishingReturns is already defined somewhere on the wiki I think, so a search for that term should find it, but if not, search in https://github.com/HabitRPG/habitrpg-shared/ (you're looking for any lines that contain both "diminishingReturns" and "function" - that will be the start of the definition of the diminishingReturns function) ::: - Math.ceil is standard JavaScript (google for it if needed), and the rest of that line is described on the wiki page ::: - user.stats.exp is the user's XP ::: - user.party.quest.progress.up is the total damage done today by the user to the quest boss (irrelevant if the user is not on a boss quest) ::: LadyAlys (talk) 12:19, June 5, 2014 (UTC) ::: Thanks a lot, Alys! I made a spreadsheet for calculating XP/boss damage here (I hope it's right; it seems to match up with the values in the example). Caspid (talk) 19:13, June 5, 2014 (UTC) Question about Mage potential A party of Mages → infinite MP → infinite INT → infinite levels with just one task completed? Caspid (talk) 18:04, June 3, 2014 (UTC) : I have contemplated this exploit but never tried it. If we don't hear back from someone with experience, I can test it out on a dev build tonight. Note that you can use BoF on a task without checking it off, so you don't need to complete even one task. AxialGentleman (talk) 20:23, June 3, 2014 (UTC) :: Per wc8 in the Tavern: "multiple mages limitless mana at the moment, that may be slated for correction." Thanks for the note. Caspid (talk) 20:25, June 3, 2014 (UTC) :: What would you think about moving this trick to a different page? I don't think we need to censor the wiki, but it might be better to have a special "game-breaking exploits" page than to put it on a standard, canonical reference page that first-time users are directed to. AxialGentleman (talk) 04:42, June 4, 2014 (UTC) :: Although if I were a new player, these game-legal abilities would factor into my class understanding and decision, I understand the reasoning and would be okay with a separate page or section. For cohesiveness though, I'm leaning towards a separate "Tips & Tricks" section. Caspid (talk) 15:21, June 4, 2014 (UTC)